Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  allsewnonbyhand on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:05 pm

I'm so glad they didn't leave Molly until last like Susan...that would have been really mean. Absolutely thrilled she got through as did my other votes Joe and Gemma. Looking forward to next week now!
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  diamondsandpearls on Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:48 pm

I've just been having a wander down memory lane of Rachel Steven' dresses (you know, because I can).

And apart from noticing some gorgeous frocks I noticed the following:

1.  The couple were seen waiting in the wings for their introduction then came on  to the - shock, horror, hold the front page  affraid  - empty floor, went to their positons and stood ready to dance.

2. As soon as the music started they began to dance the routine.  No faffing 10 second (or more...) intro - just straight into the dance

3.  No theme, no props.  Just a a brilliantly choreographed routine (well, we are talking about Vinthent), a beautiful, appropriate to the dance frock (her Foxtrot dress looks like it could be horrific but it shows off the dance SO well - and y'know - wafty wrist hanky thingies....) and a beautiful, appropriate to the dance suit.

4.  A whole minute and half of said dance - no  10 sec ntro faff, no 10 sec in the middle faff, no 10 sec ending faff. A routine entirely filled with the relevant dance

Basically the dance is the star.

It seems to me that the producers are afraid to make the dance the star now and want to hide it behind a screen of a load of distracting other stuff.  If a dance is sublime it needs nothing else.  If a dance is rubbish it will be rightly exposed as such.  No hiding behind smoke and mirrors.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you...  Rachel and Vincent's Foxtrot:

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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  Twirlie on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:17 pm

I was reminded about this in something B4p said on the Judges thread about Alexandra, but I feel it's better followed up here.
B4p wrote: The AT was ok, and worthy of 9s for me, but not in the same class as Rachel & Vin cent's, or even Karen & Ramps. No atmosphere, no sizzle or connection.
You've just put into words B4p, what I couldn't quite grasp or express about Alex and Gorka. There's no real chemistry there. It's all very technically correct, but no sizzle as you say. Their performances are a bit cold so I don't really care about them.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  B4p on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:20 pm

I miss Vincent & Flavia. Rachel was a great partner too. I'll be seeing their new Tango show in the new year. Can't wait.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  Twirlie on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:32 pm

diamondsandpearls wrote:Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you...  Rachel and Vincent's Foxtrot:

Rachel has always struck me as the best Strictly dancer who never actually won. (Though Danny Mac and Colin Jackson are close behind her.)
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Re: Strictly 17 a little bit of honesty

Post  mauveangel09 on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:38 pm

Clearly both Jonnie and Ruth found their routines challenging this week and both performances were below par - in the DO it was the case of the one who made the less mistakes. On this basis, I agree that Ruth could have dug deep and possibly got through but I think she knew she had reached her time and I'm not surprised that she seemed deflated after B runo's uncharacteristic nasty comment - even A nton looked disbelieving at what he said. From then on it was a routine littered with errors leading to the inevitable.

I am sorry that Ruth and A nton won't be in Blackpool. A nton is one of my favourites and I think that some of the routines that he has done this series have been genius and I've enjoyed watching them - but not this week - didn't like the routine at all and found it strange and skippy - let alone the hats and canes - no wonder Ruth struggled. Ian said during the week that there looked to be too many 'quicks' and not enough 'slows' and this seemed very true. very unlike A nton.

On the other hand - I'm delighted that Mollie got through and really happy that Joe, Debbie and Gemma will be going strong in Blackpool Very Happy

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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  diamondsandpearls on Sun Nov 12, 2017 11:58 pm

Twirlie wrote:
Rachel has always struck me as the best Strictly dancer who never actually won. (Though Danny Mac and Colin Jackson are close behind her.)

Well, you are preaching to the choir on that Twirlie!

But my point was that a stripped down production makes the dance the star and that makes for better, more exciting viewing. It's like looking through a clean window at the cute little robin on the birdfeeder, rather than through a smeary window. Or through smoke. Or, watching an exciting Olympic running final and there are cheerleaders and bands and confetti all bobbing up and down in your face - you just want to see the flippin' runners! All the 10- seconds here and there where they are allowed to break hold of hold (in a ballroom) or generally mince about (latin), all the props and the every-increasing silliness of the themes actually blurs the dance that we paid our money to see.

Watching that Foxtrot I could see why Rachel got a perfect 40 - all the extraneous bits and bobs just obfuscate (ooh - get me!) the dance so you don't know whether it was style or substance that won the day. Which if course, may be the whole idea...
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  B4p on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:05 am

Twirlie wrote:I was reminded about this in something B4p said on the Judges thread about Alexandra, but I feel it's better followed up here.

You've just put into words B4p, what I couldn't quite grasp or express about Alex and Gorka. There's no real chemistry there. It's all very technically correct, but no sizzle as you say. Their performances are a bit cold so I don't really care about them.
I think that the AT in particular is lead by the man, with the female following.

The A Tango always reminds me of 'following the male partners essence or movement'. I used to be a foil fencer. In training we'd sometimes engage blades and close our eyes. As soon as the opponent made any sort of movement, (in footwork or bladework), you could notice it down the blade first as the pressure points changed. It's a similar principle in Tai Chi with 'push hands' where you are connected by the hands to a partner, but constantly trying to push against their 'weak' area to put them off balance.

It's a 'feel the way' type of thing. I don't think Alexandra can do this. She is a solo artist, not a team player. She's a leader, not a follower. Dance is about feeling. I don't think she can strip things down from an egotistical performance angle, towards feeling truly connected with a partner. She demonstrates fire, zest, energy, strength, leadership, and all the hyper, whizzy-whizzy in your face styles, but I don't think she can show (or act) raw emotion, vulnerability, or establish a more personal connection with her dance partner.

I still love this old youtube clip. Even when she's moving backwards, she's still 'following' him. The eye contact and connection between them is insane. As for the acting, I think it's a 10 from me.
Forever Tango by Evaristo Carriego  https://youtu.be/v8nSaydD3s8
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  Twirlie on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:50 am

B4p wrote:
I still love this old youtube clip. Even when she's moving backwards, she's still 'following' him. The eye contact and connection between them is insane. As for the acting, I think it's a 10 from me.
Forever Tango by Evaristo Carriego
Bloody Marvellous! cheers cheers cheers cheers
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  allsewnonbyhand on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:02 am

wow!!
Thanks for sharing that B4...it gave me goosebumps. So restrained but so erotic - less is more folks! Wink
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  Tappingfeet on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:24 am

Sid wrote:Not usually a fan of big showy celebrations when couples are voted through but Mollie and AJ could be as loud and euphoric as they liked!


I felt the same .! It was genuine delight and though I am not a fan of the uber reacting I loved the sincerity of Mollie and AJ joy .
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  saxonsiren on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:35 am

Not my favourites but love their genuine relief at getting through... It's times like this the BGP tend to whip out a supportive bounce back vote and also propel into the next week too. Any hint of nastiness in comments my vote will go this pair or Jonnie no need to stamp on people's feelings and crush on live TV ok live Saturday but pretend live Sunday show
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  Sid on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:16 pm

diamondsandpearls wrote:I've just been having a wander down memory lane of Rachel Steven' dresses (you know, because I can).

And apart from noticing some gorgeous frocks I noticed the following:

1.  The couple were seen waiting in the wings for their introduction then came on  to the - shock, horror, hold the front page  affraid  - empty floor, went to their positons and stood ready to dance.

3.  No theme, no props.  Just a a brilliantly choreographed routine (well, we are talking about Vinthent), a beautiful, appropriate to the dance frock (her Foxtrot dress looks like it could be horrific but it shows off the dance SO well - and y'know - wafty wrist hanky thingies....) and a beautiful, appropriate to the dance suit.

Oh how I miss the couples appearing on the dance floor from behind the red curtain of the Tesspit. That just added something.

I even loved Rachel's Foxtrot frock - but then I'm partial to a frothy dress tongue

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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  saxonsiren on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:19 pm

I recall the just walk onto floor and get on with the dance routines ... Oh how I'd like them back and the frothy dresses. Plus we do not here anymore about the "bling" rhinestones, sequins, have they been shelved by costume? Fed up of putting each crystal on by hand?
Can we not see a vintage dress used back in the show and advised series 3 week 5 please welcome dress etc etc....
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  Sid on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:37 pm

saxonsiren wrote:I recall the just walk onto floor and get on with the dance routines ... Oh how I'd like them back and the frothy dresses. Plus we do not here anymore about the "bling" rhinestones, sequins, have they been shelved by costume?  Fed up of putting each crystal on by hand?
Can we not see a vintage dress used back in the show and advised series 3 week 5 please welcome dress etc etc....

I sometimes feel like wardrobe (just like the choreographers) feel under pressure to come up with new and original ideas all the time when sometimes simple and classic does the trick. Those early series dresses are timeless.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:17 pm

I am not sure how much truth there is in newspaper reports doing the rounds today that Alexandra and Gorka's Argentine Tango was choreographed by Vincent Simeoni. I sincerely hope there is no truth in this as I see it as a blatant cheat. I always watch each dance and am led to believe the pro dancer choreographs it and it stays within team what,they have acheived. However, this seems totally unfair to get in someone renowned for his greatness at this dance to choreograph a dance for them. Isn't Gorka up to the task? Sorry but this is so wrong if true in my eyes.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  jingle on Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:07 pm

I'm fairly sure they've always been allowed to get experts in to advise on some of the choreography, especially charleston and AT.

I've always wondered how far in advance the dances are themed and choreographed. Like, I doubt the pro thinks of a theme on a Monday and expects to have all the music, costumes, props, staging etc etc ready within a few days. I suspect things are planned weeks in advance. I do also wonder how much input the pros get in the choice of music, I imagine not very much.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:04 pm

Hmm well judges must know though. And you always hear them commending the pros for their choreography. I have never heard them say your choreographer did a good job etc.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  diamondsandpearls on Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:14 pm

saxonsiren wrote:I recall the just walk onto floor and get on with the dance routines ... Oh how I'd like them back and the frothy dresses. Plus we do not here anymore about the "bling" rhinestones, sequins, have they been shelved by costume?  Fed up of putting each crystal on by hand?
Can we not see a vintage dress used back in the show and advised series 3 week 5 please welcome dress etc etc....

Oh yes - the frothy dresses Smile  I have been banging on a bit about them on pretty much every thread (not just the GLamour and Glitz one where I am allowed/supposed to!)

To be fair on Vicky's section (which I belatedly realised was called Putting on the Glitz - if I had caught on earlier I would have called the costume commentary thread by the same name.  Still, it's very similar in essence... but I digress...).. Anyway, to be fair, Vicky usually tells us what crystals (rhinestones) she is putting on - the colour and the size and also how many.  It is usually a considerable number, so I don't think they have given up on the bling just yet.

Just the froth.

And the arm wafts... (Heidi Stephens of the Guardian blog HATES the arm wafts, but I love them and feel very shortchanged that we don't see them with the Waltz and VW dresses any more)

And long, elbow length gloves.....

Sid wrote:I sometimes feel like wardrobe (just like the choreographers) feel under pressure to come up with new and original ideas all the time when sometimes simple and classic does the trick. Those early series dresses are timeless.

I think you might be right about the pressure for always having to be new.  ALthough they do recycle a little, they will alter the original a fair bit reference Kristina's leopardskin dress altered for Natalie - I tried having a thread about it based on that observation, about three years ago, but ran out of steam as I, and everyone else, ran out of observations...).  But mostly they seem to always have new stuff. I actually don't mind new stuff every series providing they fit the criteria -see above, ie froth, waft, gloves for ballroom and sophisticated slink (a la Rachel Stevens' Rumba and AT dresses and Kara's Rumba dress) for the Latin.  And a jive and the Charleston must ALWAYS be era-appropriate ie 40s/50s and 20s respectively

Thems my rules....
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  diamondsandpearls on Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:23 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm well judges must know though. And you always hear them commending the pros for their choreography. I have never heard them say your choreographer did a good job etc.

Usually the pro thanks the chorepgrapher who has helped them - it happens a fair bit for the Charleston -Gio very definitely thanked someone this series for help with their Charleston choreography, and Alexandra referenced Vincent on Saturday for help wiht their AT. I don't think it is a hidden, unacknowledged thing, and I think for those two dances they are all offered help as the pros won't necessarily have done them, as they are not done on the competition circuit (maybe the AT now, but not the Charleston). It's a level playing field - they can all access the help. It's totally fair.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  allsewnonbyhand on Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:39 pm

saxonsiren wrote:I recall the just walk onto floor and get on with the dance routines ... Oh how I'd like them back and the frothy dresses. Plus we do not here anymore about the "bling" rhinestones, sequins, have they been shelved by costume?  Fed up of putting each crystal on by hand?
Can we not see a vintage dress used back in the show and advised series 3 week 5 please welcome dress etc etc....

Makes my name a bit redundant .... pale pale pale
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  CaledonianCraig on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:06 pm

diamondsandpearls wrote:

Usually the pro thanks the chorepgrapher who has helped them - it happens a fair bit for the Charleston  -Gio very definitely thanked someone this series for help with their Charleston choreography, and Alexandra referenced Vincent on Saturday for help wiht their AT. I don't think it is a hidden, unacknowledged thing, and I think for those two dances they are all offered help as the pros won't necessarily have done them, as they are not done on the competition circuit (maybe the AT now, but not the Charleston).  It's a level playing field - they can all access the help. It's totally fair.
Okay diamonds thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  saxonsiren on Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:47 pm

allsewnonbyhand wrote:

Makes my name a bit redundant .... pale pale pale


Oh no Alls not meant as a stop doing them by hand! I just feel its mentioned less how many stones/crystals? All done by hand! A lot of hard work goes into details and the little hand sewn details make the difference.... ☺️ hugs
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  B4p on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:21 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:I am not sure how much truth there is in newspaper reports doing the rounds today that Alexandra and Gorka's Argentine Tango was choreographed by Vincent Simeoni. I sincerely hope there is no truth in this as I see it as a blatant cheat. I always watch each dance and am led to believe the pro dancer choreographs it and it stays within team what,they have acheived. However, this seems totally unfair to get in someone renowned for his greatness at this dance to choreograph a dance for them. Isn't Gorka up to the task? Sorry but this is so wrong if true in my eyes.
I beleive Vincent helped to choreograph that A. Tango. It certainly had a lot of his signature moves in it. Gorka admitted he hadn't danced an A. Tango before. It's not unusual to get an expert in to help with the choreography in that case. I remember we had Salsa experts in for around 2 full seasons as some of the pros hadn't done that dance either (Housewives choice & Brendan). Those sessions are where a lot of the armography emerged from, and it then turned into a 'tie yourselves in knots' dance. I also think that this is why so many lifts are thrown in, to jazz up poor basic footwork.
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Re: Strictly 17 A little bit of Honesty

Post  B4p on Mon Nov 13, 2017 8:25 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:Hmm well judges must know though. And you always hear them commending the pros for their choreography. I have never heard them say your choreographer did a good job etc.
The judges often fudge with comments 'I liked the choreography' or 'fabulous choreography' in fact they don't often say I liked your choreography. I think it helps the judges cover all bases.
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